eBay seller leira921 originally had an NES box listed for $149.99 or best offer (+$19.99 shipping). Personally I would never have purchased this myself, but I ended up being a middle man in this purchase & was told to offer the seller $90. He counter-offered at $99.99, which was accepted by the person requesting I place the order for him. After I confirmed the price with the buyer, I stated that he needed to get me the money before I would accept the offer; he brought by the money later & the order was put through at $99.99 +$19.99 for shipping. The item was shipped 2 days later.
When we got the item on the 8th, I notified the buyer it was here, however he did not come to pick it up until the following day. When the buyer came by to pick it up, I let him do the unpacking, mentioning it did feel it had some bubble wrap in the box. As he was opening package (right in front of me), he immediately started getting vocal about the poor method of shipping the seller used; there was only a thin layer of bubble wrap & no outer box to protect it.
The next vocal outburst was the damage to the box. In my case this wouldn't really matter, but the buyer apparently is a collection & willing to pay the amount the system itself just for it's box. There was damage to two different corners, one about half way to the center of the box, going down about halfway to the bottom of the box from the top & a small indentation on the back:
At that point I filed a return request through eBay with the following information:
Reason for return Arrived damaged Comments
My buyer (my position in this transaction being a middleman) is very disappointed with the condition of the item after it arrived. First thing was that it was sent only with the shipping package & a thin later of bubble wrap, there was no outer box to protect it. Furthermore their was tape on the box attaching the bubble wrap, however he was able to remove that without any further damage. The individual that had me purchase this was looking for a NES box for his collection, expecting this was in mint condition, however the results after it arrived, while perhaps still in semi-good condition, were not mint & he was very vocal about not only the damage, but also the packing method. He stated that I need to file a claim either for a partial refund ($50 is what he s asking for) or a full refund & we will return the box; I know his stance when it comes to returns as I ve argued with him on this before, he won t pay return shipping & believes it is the seller s responsibility if they want the item back. Feedback has not been given yet; seller feedback will be dependant on how this issue is dealt with.
Not long after the return was filed, he had thrown 3 outbursts my way, as well as a counter offer of $20 before my email program (Thunderbird) could pull email notifications (set to every 10 minutes to avoid causing errors querying the servers too often):
2/9/2017, 6:27 PM
If your expecting 50 dollars in a refund that's outrageous you can file a claim with the post office for the insurance. I have pictures of the box if your trying to scam me by sending me a different one back. Box was sent in excellent condition
2/9/2017, 6:29 PM
And to threaten my feedback is insulting please send pictures of box zoomed out so I can verify it is indeed my box
2/9/2017, 6:33 PM
I don t feel like dealing with this aggravation..package was insured you can deal with the post office
After speaking to my buyer again, he stated that the seller needed to be the one to go after USPS for the insurance situation, as USPS won't speak to use about it even if we current have the item. I also told the buyer how much the seller was offering, he stated that he wouldn't accept less than $40 due to the damage. It was a heated discussion that resulted in me rejecting the offered refund. Before I could response after the rejection was sent, he sent me the following message:
Can we work something out 50 is excessive I'll be going to the post office tomorrow to file an insurance claim
My response to him was as follows:
I spoke with the buyer about your responses, he stated he wouldn't accept less than $40. He was willing to get you a photo of the entire box (which would be sent to me via email, then attached to this return) when I went over that response, but then stated that it looked like you weren't going to accept that as you threw the counter-offer of $20 afterwards with the response "I don t feel like dealing with this aggravation". He's stated he's not going to keep that box in that condition, he's going to try & find another in mint (or near-mint) condition to replace it.
He sent another couple responses after that with apparent sarcasm due to the way he formatted the word buyer:
I'm trying to work with you here and as a middle man your not being transparent to both sides your looking out for your better outcome. I need to know what your " buyer" is willing to take as refund because 50 is to high. If your planing on returning I have 2 distinct marks on the box that I have a video of before sending and I'll know if it's my box your trying to return or another one
Another concern of mine is that you no longer have the item and your "buyer" does because you stated he will email you a photo of my item. I take that as you sold my box to your buyer and I feel like I'm the one being deceived here.
My response after that seems to put an end to his disbelief that my position in the purchase actually was as a middle man:
My buyer is a friend I've known for over a decade, we used to hang out quite a bit until he got married; currently our friendship is more of a business-relationship than an actual friendship, however if we weren't friends in the beginning, I wouldn't be doing this for him in the first place. He still has the box because he expects he might have to return it. I was there when he opened in it my front room early this morning; I had an appointment to deal with which prevented me from opening the return until after I got back. After your first few responses, I was wishing I had recorded him opening the box, which I would have uploaded to YouTube if this became a problem as it has (I may start doing that in the future when he's expecting something to be in mint condition). I called him & told him to get me a photo, he'll likely take it through his phone, it will then be attached to this return as a 5th picture once he's sent it to me.
After that, he responded with the following:
This is were I'm at. I contacted usps and I have insurance on the box. I already filed a claim online and can send him a reimbursement of 50 dollars as he originally requested. I'm assuming this will satisfy both parties as your original message stated.
At this point I realized what he was doing, he was accepting the terms of partial refund on our side so he could collect the full refund through the insurance claim filed on USPS. I decided to probe him a bit, to see if this was what he was doing or if he thought we were going to send back the box with only a partial refund:
That depends. $50 refund was based on not having to return it. If you're filling a claim, don't you need the item to prove damages? Or will the photos I've already provided cut it to collect on the claim?
His response confirmed what I was thinking. While I was waiting for the response, I called back the buyer & pointed out that the seller was committing mail fraud, giving us a partial refund for a damaged box (one that is going to have to be replaced in the future anyways) & him gaining the full amount, meaning he's actually gained $50 (not sure if shipping is refunded in insurance claims, I haven't done them before, but it would be $70 if so) out of his poor packing of the box. I had to reiterate the point to the buyer whether this was what he really wanted; he stated that as long as he got back the $50 & was able to keep the box, he would be happy. leira921's response was as follows:
Photos you provided would be enough compared to the photos of the listing for the claim..I'm just trying to make everyone happy and this what you originally asked for. Your buyer keeps the box and gets $50
I responded to the seller with the following, knowing full well enough that he was committing mail fraud in what he was doing, but attempt not to make that obvious:
Once the money is in my bank & I can credit him for the refund, I think we'll be happy. I'm not happy that he's going to have to find & pay for another (hopefully) mint condition box to replace this one in the future, but it's his purchase & his happiness I'm fighting for here (regardless of what stress it causes me in the long run), so I'll try to push that thought in the back of my mind for the time being just so we can put an end to this issue.
UPDATE: A waited up until sometime after 2 AM last night for a response while watching a friend on Twitch, Went to bed some time after that time. When I woke up around noon on 2/10/2017, I found I had a response from the seller on the return request:
Since you declined the partial refund of 20 I can't make another one unless you close the case I can directly send you the money thru PayPal. Thanks good luck in your search
This response seems to have been sent around 11:24 AM Mountain Time according to Thunderbird, while I knew he was trying to scam me (as well as the USPS), this only further verified it. I gave him the following response:
I don't believe that, it previously stated you could send another offer. Not to mention it's not the first times I've had a seller state that I needed to cancel the return before they could send the refund & I verified that seller had done it before when I did a search online & had stiffed other buyers as a result of it. You do have the ability to offer the refund directly through Paypal, once I see the refund has been issued to Paypal, I would be willing to close the ticket. Expect an eBay claim to be filed by the end of the day if I haven't seen at least a counter-offer in this return, if not the refund being issued through Paypal. Also I might note I spoke to my sister about this last night, she works with the fraud department of eBay. She won't give special attention simply because I'm family (she runs strictly by the book), but I'm hoping in the event I get stiffed by a seller, she might make a note with her team to flag an account at least to be monitored. I have my own way to deal with such individuals, as I have my own site to deal with such matters (my sister is already aware of this as I've mentioned it to her before when I tried to bring up another seller with her that tried to get me to cancel a claim before issues a refund before & found details about his account on the web).
In this case I was in a hurry to send the response as I have some other issues to take care of, so I didn't finish proofreading it, so there are some errors in this response... I'm expecting another outburst from the seller.
UPDATE: As expected, he once again threw another tantrum. After I sent that response to him, he stated that he had contacted eBay & "don't appreciate your fraud comments and your "sister" threat". The full response was as follows:
I contacted eBay and don't appreciate your fraud comments and your "sister" threat. Please send back my item I'm aware of two distinct marks on my box so I will know if it is my item or "another" one
At that point, I contacted back the buyer to let him know we were going to need the box back to send it back & I already had the packing slip provided by eBay. I also made it a point to contact eBay regarding how bent out of shape this matter had gotten, going over a number of details regarding the matter, including the statement I made regarding speaking to my sister about it, who works in the fraud department of eBay. Then I contacted back the seller again, giving him full detail of what going to happen if he's trying to pull a fast one on us, which I expect he will but I'm ready to get the police involved as well. The response unfortunately got cut off due to a character limitation I didn't notice, but the full response (including truncated information, which the seller did not receive, highlighted in red) was as follows:
I have also contacted eBay regarding this matter (just got off the phone with them) & voiced some concerns regarding the matter.
- I mentioned first the allegations of it possibly not even being your box.
- I mentioned the statement about mentioning this to my sister (and her being in the fraud department), where I was mainly asking her if the potential for mail fraud (I could see what you were doing with accepting the $50 partial refund for us, but getting a full refund through the USPS insurance claim) would freeze a return request; she tried to tell me it wasn't mail fraud since the two systems aren't linked, you were free to do what you wanted with USPS & I shouldn't be about what you did with USPS after we got back the requested refund. As far as contact with her is concerned, she really only attempts to get me to calm down on it & go through the proper procedure, if anything giving me advice on how to go through the Resolution Center.
- I mentioned that you attempted to get us to cancel the return before you would issue the refund, where I've had that attempted on me before & verified that the other seller had stiffed others as a result of this.
- I also mentioned the concern that you're going to try to state that it's not your box when you get it back, which is why I requested the Resolution Center rep to put a note on the return of the possibility of this happening once returned. I stated that I would be taking pictures of the box & the original package for use in a police report if it goes that far, however the rep stated that once I apply a tracking number to the open return, you will have 6 business days from that point to issue the FULL refund, otherwise I can open a claim against your account & it will be forced by eBay.
What I did not mention was the article I am writing regarding this matter, something that hasn't been published yet, but I intend on publishing once it's all done with (I've considered publishing it before it's done with & applying updates as it goes, but haven't done so yet). Your attitude towards buyers is by far one of the worst I have seen in my buying experience on eBay (not the worst, but defiantly in the top) & negative feedback (with an 80 character limitation) won't even come close to the details that are going to go on that page.
It was no surprise he decided to retaliate once again, he attitude at least toned down a bit, but at the same time making a mockery & apparent disbelief of my response:
Any further communication can be done directly through eBay. I'd appreciate if you no longer contact me directly your on going threats and "article" writing are unwanted and comical thank you
This isn't surprising given it's been this way through this entire (perhaps comical) charade. In any case I am true to my word & here is the article regarding that matter. I may also bring this up to USPS when we go in to deliver the package (with email proof), however at this point it probably don't matter given it's turned into a full return regardless, although I expect the issue is far from over...
UPDATE: I ended up having to go to the buyers house to grab the item to be shipped back, took a couple pictures to provide to the police if I have to file a police report for what I expect is going to happen when he gets it (claiming it's not the same item he sent us). Not only did I take a picture of the item, but I also took a picture of his original packing (minus bubble wrap, as it got thrown out with the trash this morning):
The buyer used one of his extra boxes to box up two items above (box in the bag it was sent in; minus loose bubble wrap), put some packing into the box so the item wouldn't receive any additional damage (beyond what already happened as a result of the seller's poor packing job) & took what you see below to USPS for shipping:
I would hope that this example would show the seller how to better protect his items when sending them to avoid problems like this in the future, however negative feedback on his profile would show this isn't the first time it's happened & his belligerent attitude through this whole ordeal makes me believe it's unlikely he'll be taking anybody's advice or learning anything that would benefit him anytime in the near future...
While I was at USPS, I tried to tip them off as to the insurance fraud this seller had attempted to commit through doing only a partial refund with us, yet getting a full refund through them. USPS said they wouldn't take the evidence I had with me when I went in (taking time to print the detail from the eBay return, the followup trash over a separate message after he stated he just wanted to do a full return, as well as the pictures I provided him with, which he used to file the claim against USPS). I stated that if I needed to get the police involved, I would give them the information instead if USPS didn't have an interest in it.
I contacted the eBay Solutions Center again when I got back as I was having trouble adding a tracking number to the open return, getting an explanation that it was 6 days after the seller gets the item back, not 6 days after shipping it; this isn't what the rep stated when I spoke to them earlier in the day, so all I can do is follow the tracking number to tell when the item is received by the original seller, at which point I'll be tracking 6 business days from that point. I'm more than certain the seller is going to make the excuse that it's not the same item that was shipping to us, which is where the eBay claim will be filed, short thereafter a police report to back up the eBay claim if eBay is not honoring what has already been stated to me throughout this situation; getting the police involved won't be to get eBay in trouble, but as a counter-measure to false statements from the seller if it goes that route.
UPDATE: The return was received by the seller on 2/13/2017 according to USPS tracking. Within 17 minutes (according to notification emails), I noticed leira921 had opened a claim with eBay, the message stating the following:
leira921 has asked us to step in and help. We'll make a decision within 48 hours.
We'll get back to you within 48 hours.
I already know what he's pulling here, because he's given indication of this throughout the matter; he's going to claim it's not the same item he shipped. If it comes down to eBay rejecting the claim, I will get the police involved & get a case number before I call back the eBay Resolution Center, this will be so I can give eBay that number. If this still don't yield result, I will file a claim with my bank for chargeback based on fraudulent seller activity. In any case this information will be public regardless & while I don't think eBay will allow it, I'm going to attempt to provide a link to this page in the negative comment I intend on leaving on his profile.
UPDATE: As the above update was being processed, I got another email from eBay (12 minutes after leira921 opened the claim, according to notifications emails) stating that the ruling of said dispute was in my favor & the full amount (including shipping) of $119.98 was being refunded. I'm expecting further lashback from the seller, however if he's seen this article yet, he might refrain from doing so (I'm certain he would know that everything he has stated thus far has already become public, I don't think he want to make the matter worse). I will wait until I see the refund back in my account, then take matter from that point, which I'm certain will be negative feedback; if I see him trying to pull the refund, I'll get the police involved, where I can send them directly to his house for an arrest (based on the address for the return) if they determine that illegal activity has happened (this will include the attempted insurance fraud through USPS through his own statement, although the return nullified that option, although I do believe he attempted further fraud through eBay when he contacted them directly after receiving the item back.
UPDATE: After looking at the Paypal transaction, it appears the refund was issued by eBay, not the seller. So if he tries to reverse that charge, he's actually reversing it on eBay, not me. That will result in both his Paypal & eBay accounts getting banned. It looks like at this point I won't have to get the police involved unless he attempt to post my private information publicly or attempts to retaliate by literally coming to my house to do it; in the case of the latter, the buyer for this order will know what happened & who did it (I'm going to send him the personal information just in case that happens) if anything happens to me & I hope he will follow through with reporting it to the police if that happens. I also have a sort of reverse-hitlist that I have attempted to share with my father, I will be adding the sellers information into that in case a murder investigation ends up needing to be done.
UPDATE: On 2/15/2017, the refund finally cleared in my bank. Leaving the URL to this page on the negative comment was not an option as eBay has URLs blocked, so I left the following feedback:
Irate refund-dodger. Return refunded through eBay claim. Avoid at all costs.
Unfortunately with a 80 character limitation, I wasn't able to leave feedback regarding the item getting damaged in shipping due to poor packing, but the information is here provided people are able to find it (and access it, which may not be possible to ban ranges implied due to hack attempts on the site). I'm expecting further retaliation from the seller, which will just mean more material added to this article of this individual that probably shouldn't be selling on eBay...
UPDATE: I checked back on this lowlife's profile on 3/8/2017 & found he somehow managed to wipe his negative & neutral feedback from his profile (accounting for almost half of his feedback rating, as he was almost at 100 when we ordered from him), so currently he only has positive feedback remaining. On another matter, he has that SAME exact box for sale again; while he may have been forced to refund the money on this purchase before ($119.98, including shipping), he not only got back that money from the insurance claim with USPS, he's now trying to collect on that item once again! This is EXACTLY why I put up this article; people need to know not to deal with lowlifes like this bottom-dwelling scum-sucker & need to avoid him at all costs. He is still getting feedback regardless, so it means people are not aware of his disposition & it would be smart for anybody reading this to spread the word so they don't become a victim of his fraudulent manipulation of shipping warranties & eBay policies.
Furthermore, it appears the lowlife decided to extend it to a block; as I was already expecting when I added the item to my cart to test this, I got the following error:
Not that this really matters, I was expecting as much & didn't intend on purchasing from this manipulative lowlife any time in the future anyways; my purpose at this point is to warn others not to purchase from him, otherwise risk the same shit we had to go through.
Last updated 3/10/2017